Curse

TheIdiotXP · Mar 27, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

I dont think itll be a problem much longed with 8v8 coming back =D

42_ · Mar 27, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Can you interrupt 2 spammers? Can you interrupt them *all the time*?

can you interrupt 3 spammers? or even 4?

even if you could, this would be a build dedicated to the idea of spirit-spam-interrupting....which will have it erased from the face of the earth by any other type of build.

spirits have always been the weakness of GW, from the very first moment a team of 8 rangers entered Tombs back in 2005. spirits have to be *erased* from GW, simple as that. the whole idea of spirits is retarded in a first place, not to mention the retarded gameplay it provokes. do you want to play a game for retards? I surely don't.

I want to make something clear - my guildie, the OP, and I, do NOT say that there's no counter to the spam. If you wish to beat a spamming team, you can and you will. But this will render you useless versus any other type of build you meet.

Curse You · Mar 28, 2007, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42_

Can you interrupt 2 spammers? Can you interrupt them *all the time*?

can you interrupt 3 spammers? or even 4?

even if you could, this would be a build dedicated to the idea of spirit-spam-interrupting....which will have it erased from the face of the earth by any other type of build.

Spinal Shivers + Shivers of Dread + Echo + Archane Echo + cold damage weapons/AoE water magic attacks, beg to differ.

MithranArkanere · Mar 28, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Interrupt, Disrupt, Disable, Energy Steal, Energy Punish, Spirit Punish... the skills are there already, use them.

It already triggers half on spirits... you always have to know that Necromancers will when energy on deaths. So you have to act as if you know it, it their specialty.

Jesus Binladen · Mar 28, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by linh

Say E-denial to necro spamming spirits must be best joke ever.

Good Joke lawl! But too bad there are things call physical attack else your idea would become realistic lol! Absolute maybe?

Anyway! Soul reaping is fun to play with. I do agree with you in some of the builds, it really become overpower. But that does not mean you can not anti it. In practice of Soul reaping there are serveral builds:

1. Spirit spammer:
- Pros:
+ Give multiple spirits that when they die, it gives energy to healer N.
+ Make the map become crouded. Well if you play melee you will find this is really annoying >_^.
- Cons:
+ If the other team have something that deal area dmg such as Fire E, Melee with Scythe and so on. Spirits will be dead in no time and only give the heal N energy in bad time.
+ Slow in casting >_^ can be shutdown easily by choker or PD mes!
+ Of course if your comp is weak it causes lag KI Ki ki...!!!

Opinion: This is for noobs to play, take no skill and can be killed easily. Playing this only make you become a worse player after the nerf. Considering nerf always exist >_^

2. Heal/Prot N:
- Pros:
+ Have a lot of energy managment.
- Cons:
+ Passive in knowing when energy will come.
+ Less effective in heal/prot.
+ Have to spread atribute and can not do the heal/prot monk!
+ Can not use good elite in divine such as Spell breaker (Believe it or not one of my favorite skill in my r10/12+ team >_^)
+ Can not use combo such as channeling/Glyph when use spammable spells/high energy spells.

Opinion: Well nice to have a lot of energy but oh well too risky. You never know when energy come! In the order word, too dependable. Can not count on this when doing 10+ consecutive runs! Waste of time for noobs!

There, those are the most practical use for Soul Reaping. When making a build, be ready to see all kind of possibility. You may face lame builds such as NR/traq, spirit spammer or even dump Iway using R/W with scythe and paraway. That is when the fun of PvP come. If for everything in GW you ask for a nerf then at the end only balance build exist. No fun! No fun when entering the battle and you already know what will they play. So boring!

If need a nerf, I would suggest only spirit that die from being dmg to dead (not even expire) will give energy, else won't!

Alleji · Mar 28, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

1. Give necros a new primary attribute

2. Buff Xinrae's weapon

MithranArkanere · Mar 28, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

And, and remember the force exhaustion skills!
They can't get a single energy point from a death if they have an exausted energy bar.

Randomway Ftw · Mar 28, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

The easiest and best solution to the soul reaping problem is to change soul reaping so no enery from spirits and half energy from minions is recieved.

Stupid skills like Xinrae's Weapon are not needed.

Certain spirits, such as the eilte nature rituals are actualy underpowered.

jayce · Mar 29, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Soul Reaping - For each point of Soul Reaping, you gain 1 Energy whenever a creature near you dies. You gain half that amount for Spirits

for those of you crying that Soul Reaping is broken, the attribute discription is clear. Soul Reaping does exactly what it is suppose to do. it is not broken at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

The easiest and best solution to the *edit* -

*correction* - spirit spaming is that a spirit can not be created if a spirit of the same type already exists.

btw, correct me if im wrong, but isn't Soul Reaping the only primary attribute that is CONDITIONAL? the correction i stated above, in the end, is a means to curb teammates from the conditions of death other than flat-out killing the enemy. i have said it before, and i will say it again. people complaining about Soul Reaping need to think about ways of solving the real problem, which is the manipulation of death by friendlies. death from the hands of the enemy is one thing. death from the hands of friendlies.....

Jayce Of Underworld

------------------------------------------------

Animate Soul Lich
Energy: 25
Cast: 3
Recharge: 0

Elite Skill. Animate a level 1...14 Soul Lich
at your location and you lose all energy. You
suffer -1 energy regeneration for each Soul Lich
you control. Whenever a Soul Lich you control
deals damage, you gain 2 energy.(Soul Reaping)

widowdaballa · Mar 29, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

There are those that say "Soul Reaping should only apply to those that die, whether it be animals or humans".
Then there are those that say, "There's nothing wrong with SR, you can take the soul of a dead creature that has been summoned, and a spirit that has not soul as well. Just take a anti spirit spammer in your build".

Well, i am for those that say that SR should only apply to those that die that had a soul(life). A spirit does not have a soul, neither does a summoned creature that was ressurected who lost it's soul the first time. Do you get what I am saying? Sure you can go to the ol' "this is a fantasy type game bub, get over it", even fantasy needs it's balance. Don't get me wrong, I like the SR attribute, but to tell you the truth, even in PvE, SR isn't even needed so bad as you would like to think. Us Necros get enough of our energy from all of the dying foes we kill. NOW, that brings me to another excuse, i mean err... aw hell it's gonna be an excuse from you anyways, so i'll go ahead and say it. You'll say, " So that means you won't be able to get energy when you kill an Aatxe or smite or undead from kryta because they are already dead too!!!!" Well, that's PvE monsters, not human players. We still won't be able to get the energy from the spirits or minions we create. You don't see PvErs running spiritway builds just to have unlimited energy in PvE. In PvP you will get enough energy from killing your foes, and any fallen allies. You shouldn't have to run a build that involves spamming spirits, and your foes shouldn't have to run a build that is devoted to stop your build. It's not like every team you encounter will run spiritway, so that anti-spiritspam will pretty much be useless for the rest of the journey.

Skye Marin · Mar 29, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

There are two problems with Soul Reaping.

The first problem is how much reliable energy can be gained from the spirit spam. Even with half soul reaping, a single spirit can fuel the rest of the team with 5-8 energy, and they can be re-built every 15 or 30 seconds. That's more potent than anything else. For comparison, simply creating 3 or 4 spirits gives as much energy as a maxed out BiP cast on every Necro on the team.

I like some of the previous ideas, especially the one where Soul Reaping is based on the level of the creature that dies. My tweak on that would be that Soul Reaping is normal on non-summoned creatures, and modified by creature level divided by 20 for summoned creatures (both minions and spirits).

The Second problem is that SR effects all necros. A single death can fuel 1 necro or 16. With all this talk about "Things without a soul shouldn't give soul reaping"... well... I think this argument is more practical. A single soul shouldn't give more net energy arbitrarily because of how many Necros are hanging around.

The solution to this would be to limit the number of necros that a single Soul Reaping can effect. If a soul reaping death only effected the nearest 3 necros, I could see a serious decline in all-necro teams abusing it. For the PvE folks, we could make it so that hostiles don't steal your Soul Reaping unless they are the same species.

Suggested counters like Unnatural Signet and mass interrupts don't work as well as implied. For example, Spirit range is a little bit longer than Unnatural Signet range, and many spirits are usually in the same area. If the Signet, which is being cast repeatedly and predicatably, is interrupted by Disonnance, Wonderlust, or any other interrupt then it becomes useless for 40 seconds. If you face a team without any spirits, then it's a wasted skill slot. Even if you do kill the spirit, you're still fueling the enemy team. Having enough interrupts to stop four or five spirit casters is not practical and very difficult.

linh · Mar 29, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

This made me laugh. There is a perfectly viable skill that would counter Spirtway yet people "shouldn't be forced to carry it".

I'd love to hear why..

Didn't you read what he wrote ? Of course there are skills can counter spirits spam but they are too specific, and if you don't meet a spirit team, it will be waste of skill slot. Bringing specific skills to counter a specific build also makes this game RPS, which will sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayce

Soul Reaping - For each point of Soul Reaping, you gain 1 Energy whenever a creature near you dies. You gain half that amount for Spirits

for those of you crying that Soul Reaping is broken, the attribute discription is clear. Soul Reaping does exactly what it is suppose to do. it is not broken at all.

Lol, dude. People are saying that SR is broken, aka overpowered, not broken from its description. What people suggest is SR should gain full e from dead monsters or human, half from minions and 0 from spirits.

jayce · Mar 30, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

im starting to understand why people are really complaining about Soul Reaping and its shocking the hell out of me. its really sad, and funny at the same time, considering the company of pvp players in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linh

Lol, dude. People are saying that SR is broken, aka overpowered, not broken from its description.

thank you for proving my point. i know full well what people are saying. now go and read the rest of my post.

Jayce Of Underworld

------------------------------------------------

Animate Soul Lich
Energy: 25
Cast: 3
Recharge: 0

Elite Skill. Animate a level 1...14 Soul Lich
at your location and you lose all energy. You
suffer -1 energy regeneration for each Soul Lich
you control. Whenever a Soul Lich you control
deals damage, you gain 2 energy.(Soul Reaping)

Mr.Pickle · Mar 30, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

as PvE and PvP are conjoined at the hip. Few PvE would like their necros bludgeoned by the nerf hammer especially since soul reaping has been updated before. i say deal with this obsticle with team strategy and not asking for a primary attribute downsize.
i want updates to buff not nerf once awhile.